Comments for Seth Rosenblatt - San Carlos School Board http://rosenblatt.org/blog Reflections and musings on education and other local issues Sat, 31 Dec 2011 14:15:03 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 Comment on The Most Hopeful of Times? by Seth http://rosenblatt.org/blog/2011/12/03/the-most-hopeful-of-times/comment-page-1/#comment-9247 Seth Sat, 31 Dec 2011 14:15:03 +0000 http://rosenblatt.org/blog/2011/12/03/the-most-hopeful-of-times/#comment-9247 David -- thanks for both of your comments, and in large part, I agree with your points. Let me add some color commentary, however. To the issue of time vs. mastery, this is meant to be an intellectual construct and not something to be taken too literally or to its extreme. There would be too many practical problems taking this to its logical extreme anyway (e.g. it would be hard to image the state paying us to teach students-- and it would hard to imagine students wanting to stay -- until they were in their teens or 20s if they hadn't yet mastered a specific subject). But rather this construct is a good starting point to ask ourselves how have we been limiting the ability for students to learn because we have made time the primary limiting factor for everything. Even if we can't do the exact opposite, how can we approximate the notion of making time a non-issue? That could relate to how we structure the school day, what aspects of "inverted learning" we adopt, and how we truly differentiate learning. I agree that motivation would be a big issue, but one can argue it's already the biggest issue, as our current time-based teaching structure may be inherently de-motivating for many kids (the proverbial "watching the clock"), because the time alloted for a subject is often too little (frustration) or too much (boredom) depending on the child and the topic. For many (albeit not all) kids, self-directed projects may be more inherently motivating. But I certainly agree that a mastery-based approach required more "ownership" by both the student and his/her parents, which has both its opportunities and challenges and should cause us to think hard about how to implement any changes. As to the quote about the distance between policy makers and the student, note this was referring to elected officials and not meant to suggest that individual teachers should have free reign to teach whatever they want, whenever they want without any sort of standards, etc. The quote was about perspective and accountability in politics. One of the biggest lessons you learn as a school board member is that every community is so different and based on a wide variety of factors unique to that district (not the least of which is the student population itself, the parent population, as well as the nature of the broader community). I agree that there is a place for broader-based policy makers, but on net, there is so much less flexibility at the local level than there should be. Individual school districts should be able to approach learning in the way that works for their students, and then be accountable to both their individual community as well as a broader-policy making body that holds them accountable to a set of standards (and provides the appropriate support, etc.). Right now it is almost universally agreed that our system has far less flexibility in it than is needed while at the same time we are held to almost bizarre (and certainly outdated) standards (see my post on "The Most Important Unimportant Number"). This country has certainly had a history of "out of touch" decisions being made on a state and national scale (and I refer to both the Republican "No Child Left Behind" and the Democratic "Race To The Top" as examples). Our elected representatives at these levels of government have demonstrated a lack of true understanding of the issues and certainly there is no accountability to the people on the ground. In many ways, school board service is actually the purest form of our republic -- just the fact that you're able to comment on this blog (and I'm responding) is a perfect example of how a locally elected official can understand his/her job unlike any state or federally elected representative. David — thanks for both of your comments, and in large part, I agree with your points. Let me add some color commentary, however.

To the issue of time vs. mastery, this is meant to be an intellectual construct and not something to be taken too literally or to its extreme. There would be too many practical problems taking this to its logical extreme anyway (e.g. it would be hard to image the state paying us to teach students– and it would hard to imagine students wanting to stay — until they were in their teens or 20s if they hadn’t yet mastered a specific subject). But rather this construct is a good starting point to ask ourselves how have we been limiting the ability for students to learn because we have made time the primary limiting factor for everything. Even if we can’t do the exact opposite, how can we approximate the notion of making time a non-issue? That could relate to how we structure the school day, what aspects of “inverted learning” we adopt, and how we truly differentiate learning. I agree that motivation would be a big issue, but one can argue it’s already the biggest issue, as our current time-based teaching structure may be inherently de-motivating for many kids (the proverbial “watching the clock”), because the time alloted for a subject is often too little (frustration) or too much (boredom) depending on the child and the topic. For many (albeit not all) kids, self-directed projects may be more inherently motivating. But I certainly agree that a mastery-based approach required more “ownership” by both the student and his/her parents, which has both its opportunities and challenges and should cause us to think hard about how to implement any changes.

As to the quote about the distance between policy makers and the student, note this was referring to elected officials and not meant to suggest that individual teachers should have free reign to teach whatever they want, whenever they want without any sort of standards, etc. The quote was about perspective and accountability in politics. One of the biggest lessons you learn as a school board member is that every community is so different and based on a wide variety of factors unique to that district (not the least of which is the student population itself, the parent population, as well as the nature of the broader community). I agree that there is a place for broader-based policy makers, but on net, there is so much less flexibility at the local level than there should be. Individual school districts should be able to approach learning in the way that works for their students, and then be accountable to both their individual community as well as a broader-policy making body that holds them accountable to a set of standards (and provides the appropriate support, etc.). Right now it is almost universally agreed that our system has far less flexibility in it than is needed while at the same time we are held to almost bizarre (and certainly outdated) standards (see my post on “The Most Important Unimportant Number”). This country has certainly had a history of “out of touch” decisions being made on a state and national scale (and I refer to both the Republican “No Child Left Behind” and the Democratic “Race To The Top” as examples). Our elected representatives at these levels of government have demonstrated a lack of true understanding of the issues and certainly there is no accountability to the people on the ground. In many ways, school board service is actually the purest form of our republic — just the fact that you’re able to comment on this blog (and I’m responding) is a perfect example of how a locally elected official can understand his/her job unlike any state or federally elected representative.

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Comment on The Most Hopeful of Times? by David Perkins http://rosenblatt.org/blog/2011/12/03/the-most-hopeful-of-times/comment-page-1/#comment-9246 David Perkins Sat, 31 Dec 2011 07:27:36 +0000 http://rosenblatt.org/blog/2011/12/03/the-most-hopeful-of-times/#comment-9246 HI, Your article contains the following: "One of my favorite comments he made was that the further a policy maker is from the students he/she is making policy about, the stupider the decision is. This is very consistent with a growing trend of understanding that giving local school board more resources and more flexibility as actually a big part of the solution." I don't, in general, agree with this assertion. I've heard it taken to the extreme by some teachers (even some in SCSD) that claim that they know better than anyone else how to teach "their students". I call this the "God complex". Of course taken to the other extreme where there is a top person (or group) that specifies all of the details also is an example of the "God complex". I believe that the optimal outcome is achieved when the appropriate decision making is done by the group that has the best view of the problems and understanding and control over the resources that would be used to address the problems. So, I believe that making over simplifications doesn't really make much progress in improving performance. Given your experience and interactions with other school boards and their members, I'm guessing that you have seen a wide range of competence. One of the issues in the Republican presidential debates is on terminating the department of education. I certainly don't believe that the US department of ed should make all of the policies for every school in the US. However, I also don't believe that each local school district should each individually create all components of their policies. Doing so would be a big duplication without the expertise, resources, broad-view, and time-outlook of a state or national organization. In summary, if the case is that too many of the details for policy have been made at high level, then yes those portions need to be pushed down to a lower level. But, in general, all portions of policies need to be made at different and appropriate levels to reduce duplication, afford the use experts, increase consistency so that staff and students can move from one district to another with little disruption. Regards, David HI,

Your article contains the following:
“One of my favorite comments he made was that the further a policy maker is from the students he/she is making policy about, the stupider the decision is. This is very consistent with a growing trend of understanding that giving local school board more resources and more flexibility as actually a big part of the solution.”
I don’t, in general, agree with this assertion. I’ve heard it taken to the extreme by some teachers (even some in SCSD) that claim that they know better than anyone else how to teach “their students”. I call this the “God complex”. Of course taken to the other extreme where there is a top person (or group) that specifies all of the details also is an example of the “God complex”. I believe that the optimal outcome is achieved when the appropriate decision making is done by the group that has the best view of the problems and understanding and control over the resources that would be used to address the problems. So, I believe that making over simplifications doesn’t really make much progress in improving performance.
Given your experience and interactions with other school boards and their members, I’m guessing that you have seen a wide range of competence.
One of the issues in the Republican presidential debates is on terminating the department of education. I certainly don’t believe that the US department of ed should make all of the policies for every school in the US. However, I also don’t believe that each local school district should each individually create all components of their policies. Doing so would be a big duplication without the expertise, resources, broad-view, and time-outlook of a state or national organization.
In summary, if the case is that too many of the details for policy have been made at high level, then yes those portions need to be pushed down to a lower level. But, in general, all portions of policies need to be made at different and appropriate levels to reduce duplication, afford the use experts, increase consistency so that staff and students can move from one district to another with little disruption.

Regards,
David

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Comment on The Most Hopeful of Times? by David Perkins http://rosenblatt.org/blog/2011/12/03/the-most-hopeful-of-times/comment-page-1/#comment-9245 David Perkins Sat, 31 Dec 2011 06:28:20 +0000 http://rosenblatt.org/blog/2011/12/03/the-most-hopeful-of-times/#comment-9245 HI, In the past, I was a certified Scuba instructor. The classes to teach students to safely scuba dive required them to master a prescribed set of skills, and demonstrate understanding of information and knowledge needed to safely plan and to do scuba dives. There are many other examples of adult training where the endpoint is mastery, and there are no grades to indicate how long it took to reach mastery, and if you achieved higher than master. At TL there is an example of mastery, which is maroon trunks. To get the maroon trunks, you have to demonstrate a set of physical performances, such as running 1 mile in less than a prescribed time, doing at least a prescribed number of situps in 1 minute, etc. It doesn't matter if you can meet all of the requirements on the first day of school, or your time in the mile is much lower than the prescribed time, etc. However, much of school doesn't currently work this way. There is one important difference that I'd like to point out between adult training and a mastery based approach for students in elementary and high school. That difference is motivation. In the scuba classes I taught, the students were asked why they were taking the class. There were many reasons. However, with just a few exceptions, the students had to pay for the class and make time in their life to go to the classes. This demonstrated that they were highly self motivated. I'm not sure that most elementary and high school students will be self motivated without the school and school district providing a continuing program on motivation for the students and their parents. I believe that great teachers help their students to become self motivated, and so changing from a time-based approach to a mastery-based approach will not be the cure for education unless a motivation component is added to the mix. Regards, David HI,

In the past, I was a certified Scuba instructor. The classes to teach students to safely scuba dive required them to master a prescribed set of skills, and demonstrate understanding of information and knowledge needed to safely plan and to do scuba dives. There are many other examples of adult training where the endpoint is mastery, and there are no grades to indicate how long it took to reach mastery, and if you achieved higher than master. At TL there is an example of mastery, which is maroon trunks. To get the maroon trunks, you have to demonstrate a set of physical performances, such as running 1 mile in less than a prescribed time, doing at least a prescribed number of situps in 1 minute, etc. It doesn’t matter if you can meet all of the requirements on the first day of school, or your time in the mile is much lower than the prescribed time, etc. However, much of school doesn’t currently work this way.
There is one important difference that I’d like to point out between adult training and a mastery based approach for students in elementary and high school. That difference is motivation. In the scuba classes I taught, the students were asked why they were taking the class. There were many reasons. However, with just a few exceptions, the students had to pay for the class and make time in their life to go to the classes. This demonstrated that they were highly self motivated. I’m not sure that most elementary and high school students will be self motivated without the school and school district providing a continuing program on motivation for the students and their parents. I believe that great teachers help their students to become self motivated, and so changing from a time-based approach to a mastery-based approach will not be the cure for education unless a motivation component is added to the mix.

Regards,
David

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Comment on The Most Hopeful of Times? by Seth http://rosenblatt.org/blog/2011/12/03/the-most-hopeful-of-times/comment-page-1/#comment-9212 Seth Mon, 05 Dec 2011 23:02:15 +0000 http://rosenblatt.org/blog/2011/12/03/the-most-hopeful-of-times/#comment-9212 That is an excellent question. The district's new Director of Curriculum and Technology, Dr. Tom Keating, will be organizing a series of community meetings, workshops, etc., to to do exactly this -- get parents and other community members involved in the discussions. I suspect you'll start seeing announcements in January about these meetings. I'm certain Dr. Baker will send out a district-wide e-mail with the dates, and I'll certainly post them on this blog as well. That is an excellent question. The district’s new Director of Curriculum and Technology, Dr. Tom Keating, will be organizing a series of community meetings, workshops, etc., to to do exactly this — get parents and other community members involved in the discussions. I suspect you’ll start seeing announcements in January about these meetings. I’m certain Dr. Baker will send out a district-wide e-mail with the dates, and I’ll certainly post them on this blog as well.

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Comment on The Most Hopeful of Times? by Nirupama http://rosenblatt.org/blog/2011/12/03/the-most-hopeful-of-times/comment-page-1/#comment-9211 Nirupama Mon, 05 Dec 2011 22:55:56 +0000 http://rosenblatt.org/blog/2011/12/03/the-most-hopeful-of-times/#comment-9211 Hello Seth Thanks for this post. I am a parent of a San Carlos student. I am curious how I as a parent can get involved in community conversations on 21st Century Learning. Hello Seth
Thanks for this post. I am a parent of a San Carlos student. I am curious how I as a parent can get involved in community conversations on 21st Century Learning.

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Comment on Victory, and Next Steps… by Seth http://rosenblatt.org/blog/2011/11/09/victory-and-next-steps/comment-page-1/#comment-9073 Seth Fri, 18 Nov 2011 14:21:25 +0000 http://rosenblatt.org/blog/?p=797#comment-9073 The "final unofficial results" are in, which means they've now counted all of the votes dropped off on election day as well as all of the provisional ballots. The percentages in our race did not change much,even though there are about a third more total votes: SETH ROSENBLATT 3,498 41.1% ADAM RAK 3,178 37.3% PETER TZIFAS 1,840 21.6% The “final unofficial results” are in, which means they’ve now counted all of the votes dropped off on election day as well as all of the provisional ballots. The percentages in our race did not change much,even though there are about a third more total votes:
SETH ROSENBLATT 3,498 41.1%
ADAM RAK 3,178 37.3%
PETER TZIFAS 1,840 21.6%

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Comment on Victory, and Next Steps… by Seth http://rosenblatt.org/blog/2011/11/09/victory-and-next-steps/comment-page-1/#comment-8944 Seth Wed, 09 Nov 2011 20:14:22 +0000 http://rosenblatt.org/blog/?p=797#comment-8944 Stacey -- thanks for the comment and for the offer. Let's definitely meet up in San Diego at the CSBA conference. I'd love to hear how your process went. You can e-mail me at seth@rosenblatt.org and we can arrange time to meet. Stacey — thanks for the comment and for the offer. Let’s definitely meet up in San Diego at the CSBA conference. I’d love to hear how your process went. You can e-mail me at seth@rosenblatt.org and we can arrange time to meet.

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Comment on Victory, and Next Steps… by Stacey Brown http://rosenblatt.org/blog/2011/11/09/victory-and-next-steps/comment-page-1/#comment-8943 Stacey Brown Wed, 09 Nov 2011 20:08:06 +0000 http://rosenblatt.org/blog/?p=797#comment-8943 Congratulations on your re-election Seth. I've been enjoying your blog for several years and find it quite insightful. I am finishing my freshman year on the Cambrian School Board in San Jose. My decision to seek a board position was influenced some by your passion for education, which I share. Last year we had a significant change to our board with 3 new members joining though the combination of the election and an appointment of an incumbent who moved on to the city council. I'm happy to provide any support I can to help San Carlos navigate through your next steps. Hope to meet you in San Diego later this month. Congratulations on your re-election Seth. I’ve been enjoying your blog for several years and find it quite insightful. I am finishing my freshman year on the Cambrian School Board in San Jose. My decision to seek a board position was influenced some by your passion for education, which I share. Last year we had a significant change to our board with 3 new members joining though the combination of the election and an appointment of an incumbent who moved on to the city council. I’m happy to provide any support I can to help San Carlos navigate through your next steps. Hope to meet you in San Diego later this month.

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Comment on Money for Safe Routes by Janet L Hall http://rosenblatt.org/blog/2011/10/21/money-for-safe-routes/comment-page-1/#comment-8835 Janet L Hall Mon, 24 Oct 2011 02:54:46 +0000 http://rosenblatt.org/blog/?p=777#comment-8835 That's fantastic news about the grant from Caltrans. Arundel families have been working and hoping for that grant for years! That’s fantastic news about the grant from Caltrans. Arundel families have been working and hoping for that grant for years!

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Comment on The Most Important Unimportant Number by Seth http://rosenblatt.org/blog/2011/08/31/the-most-important-unimportant-number/comment-page-1/#comment-8658 Seth Thu, 15 Sep 2011 13:34:44 +0000 http://rosenblatt.org/blog/?p=652#comment-8658 The Daily Journal just published (a slightly edited version of) this as an op-ed piece: http://www.smdailyjournal.com/article_preview.php?type=opinions&title=The%20most%20important%20unimportant%20number&id=167465 The Daily Journal just published (a slightly edited version of) this as an op-ed piece: http://www.smdailyjournal.com/article_preview.php?type=opinions&title=The%20most%20important%20unimportant%20number&id=167465

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